How do we know that the death penalty, does not/has not, deterred some would-be murders? There is no way of knowing how much crime is deterred by the risk of punishment.

According to your reasoning, because the prisons are full, then prison sentences do not deter crime either; therefore prison as a punishment should be abolished. Similarly with fines and other punishments. Since crimes appear to be committed in ever greater numbers, then fines, community service orders, ASBOs, and any other punishments, should also be abolished. True anarchy then reigns – and the evolutionary concept of 'the survival of the fittest' becomes the rule.

For the vast majority of us, the knowledge that we are likely to receive a stiff penalty if we fail to pay our taxes is sufficient of a threat that makes many of us pay our taxes without argument; but there are some who are prepared to take the risk. Which suggests that a penalty for a crime does deter, but it doesn't deter everybody.

There is another question: Is deterrence the sole purpose of a penalty for a crime; or is justice also a function of the penalty?

I think there is a cry for natural justice from within the heart of mankind for a justice that does fit the crime. Could it be that the failure of the 'authorities' to mete out a justice that fits the crime is a major reason why crime, especially murder, is apparently on the increase? I think it does. Today the penalty for murder maybe a 'life sentence'; but, and it is a huge BUT, a life sentence does not mean anything like 'life'. These non-life 'life sentences' for murder violate our natural in-built sense of natural justice.

I agree with the death penalty where the murderer has been found guilty way beyond all shadow of doubt by his/her peers. I am not thinking of accidental manslaughter, I am referring to deliberate killing – murder.

We have a judiciary that imposes very light sentences and a parole board that is as weak as water.
Consequently we get a lot of repeat offences by people who should not be free to commit them.
Recently there have been escapes from the back of a prison van and one high profile drug dealer from a football match when he was supposed to be taking a trainee guide dog for a walk! .
We also have an under manned police "service" that keeps business hours and can't be bothered with anything except soft traffic targets.

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When a crash seems inevitable, try to hit the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity as slowly and gently as possible.

What are the laws there, do the police carry, can the the public carry.

The police carry a Glock 22, a pepper spray and a Taser.
We can't carry and ownership and storage is very restricted.

http://www.police.wa.gov.au/Ourservices ... fault.aspx

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When a crash seems inevitable, try to hit the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity as slowly and gently as possible.

The arch issue with the Death Penalty is that it's not worth the one miscarriage of justice that could happen, it doesn't bother me if Prisons are 'holiday camps' with flatscreen tv's in the cells, people like the Ripper or Ian Brady should be forgotten about and not turned into tabloid 'celebs'.

I thought you'd emigrated??? Why are you writing about the UK?

Problem is, many, many more innocent people die without the death penalty.

You mean the Mother Country is setting the example?
Well, that explains it.

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When a crash seems inevitable, try to hit the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity as slowly and gently as possible.

I agree.

If it's stone bonker 100% premeditated proof then they should be got rid of and save us dosh and clear some space for other crimes that currently only receive a slap on the wrist.

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Lets be careful out there !

Exactly, and there are many cases that fall into that category.