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Grenfell Tower tragedy
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Author:  Westonman [ Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Grenfell Tower tragedy
There is rightly a lot of heat in the media over the Grenfell Tower fire. Here are two consecutive daily newscasts where a civil engineer, and others, explain what goes on behind the scenes with the awarding of building contracts, the testing and qualifying of building materials, and the political system.

15th June 2017
http://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/u ... -june-2017

16th June 2017
http://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/u ... -june-2017
Author:  Kremmen [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grenfell Tower tragedy
Cheap cladding, not fire resistant and banned here as well as the states apparently.

Cheapest tender and loads of towers in Camden done with the same stuff. Corporate manslaughter ?
Author:  Rich Kid [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grenfell Tower tragedy
Didn't the fire start from a fridge in one of the flats? We've been hearing a lot about fridges/tumble dryers catching fire in recent times, shouldn't the 'experts' be looking at this aspect as there are obviously some fire risk issues with some brands of appliances.
Author:  Kremmen [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grenfell Tower tragedy
My bet is a Beko fridge, they have a history.
Author:  Westonman [ Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grenfell Tower tragedy
This excellent article by civil engineer David Scott deserves to be read by the widest audience.

http://www.ukcolumn.org/article/grenfel ... arch-truth
Author:  Kremmen [ Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grenfell Tower tragedy
Seems a long standing issue that they hoped would never happen.
Author:  Westonman [ Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grenfell Tower tragedy
Here is another excellent article by David Scott:
http://www.ukcolumn.org/article/grenfel ... ons-failed

David Scott's analysis applies to so much that plagues our society today. We live in an over-regulated society where the 'rules' are all too often forced upon us by those in high places who are lacking in technical know-how, and the ability to think rationaly and analytically.

Quote from David Scott: “ The monotonous languor that affected officials ...”. Oh so true! The mental and physical laziness of officialdom; coupled with the inability to think rationally, competently, analytically, with integrity and transparent honesty, is lacking in so much of the rules-based regulators that dictate and direct our lives today.
Author:  Jon [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grenfell Tower tragedy
I looked at the documents submitted for the planning application for the refurb of GT. There were whole sections on sustainability, bio diversity and climate change!! I did not see fire safety mentioned.
Author:  Westonman [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grenfell Tower tragedy
Jon wrote:
I looked at the documents submitted for the planning application for the refurb of GT. There were whole sections on sustainability, bio diversity and climate change!! I did not see fire safety mentioned.
That's the point. Rational analytical thought has been officially abandoned in favour of political correctness. “Saving the planet” from a fraud has a very much higher priority than saving human lives.
Author:  SOT [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grenfell Tower tragedy
Jon wrote:
I looked at the documents submitted for the planning application for the refurb of GT. There were whole sections on sustainability, bio diversity and climate change!! I did not see fire safety mentioned.


There was a large section on detailing the fire safety aspects, but you have hit on part of the problem;

Approved Document B (ADB) of the Building Regulations details fire safety general safety requirements for buildings, and gives numerous examples of how those standards can be achieved. It has not been revised or updated in 11 years.

In that time there's been an explosion of building materials aimed at insulating buildings. Insulation requirements are far stricter now to cut down on energy use, and many products are on the market that offer a slim profile/high U value (insulation warmth score), along with being easily to recycle, containing limited nasty chemicals and offer good value for money.

Simultaneously, there's been a demand for cladding systems to upgrade concrete structures like Grenfell where the expose slab walling systems - and their ageing leaking joints - can be repaired by such systems.

ADB simply hasn't kept up with changes. The Australian version of this document is reviewed annually - Ours is more than a decade old

Then there's the huge range of confusing standards that claim a product is 'fire safe'.

I am a fire safety consultant and once found a hotel in the west end where they had fitted carpet to the walls of the corridors to the underside of the dado rail.

Upon my request, the manager proudly showed some certification showing the carpet was suitable for wall fixing. But his suppliers had lied. It was OK for floor use but was not suitable for a wall lining.

This happens quite a lot where a product is certificated for one use, and then applied in another way that is not satisfactory. This may be what happened at Grenfell

Lastly, I have been away for a few months working abroad where there was no reliable power, let alone internet. Its good to be back here and online again, including on this site!. I came back to the UK just prior to Grenfell and actually passed it on the coach on the way to work when it was still alight (about 5.30 am). It was shocking beyond belief as that sort of fire spread is impossible - or was until the second I saw it. I knew Grenfell Tower well as it was on my old fire station patch. So very sad
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